Before running the St. George Marathon I buried my Huaraches in the desert. So I was left to run my favorite trails Barefoot. So I was quite surprised to find a $100 gift certificate in the mail from www.wasatchrunningcenter.com for a pair of Vibram Five Fingers. It was like early Christmas when they arrived last December.
Since that time I have been logging an average of 30 miles per week with a distance of 8 to 15 mile run every other day. My first day I put a rip in them running across a lava section of the trail. I was bummed! I also noticed that the inside of the heal cup was coming undone after only three runs. I thought that I would be attempting a repair job on this part of the shoe, but it has been holding steady since my first runs in the shoe.
One of the things I have had to learn quite quickly is that I must focus on keeping my pinky toes away from rocks and brush as the rubber tip wants to grab everything in sight. I am nursing a dislocated pinky toe as a result of having the toe get ripped to the side. This is not why the seam is coming un-done however in the picture.
I have been pretty impressed with how these shoes handle the the rough Southern Utah desert. I can do things that I could not do in Hauraches, or Barefoot. Even when I was wearing standard trail shoes (Solomon GTX’s as of three years ago). I did start to run with injini socks, but found them to be too hot. The socks however made running on the shale like ruble more tolerable. The secret though is making sure that you are running perfect barefoot form. This is why I start and end each run barefoot on pavement so that I am constantly building the necessary muscle memory.
Running in KSO’s is a dream as I scramble up and down steep boulder strewn sections of the trail. Even thought the the top of the shoe is not protected like my Solomon’s are, my barefoot training and the stickiness of the rubber allow me to jump and run through these sections of trail without worrying about twisting my ankle.
In Huaraches and running long distances I would get what would feel like a heat blister on the bottom of my toe. This is also my experience with the KSO’s, particularly the right toe. If you notice the above diagram my feet slide to the outsides of the shoe with my big toe pressing down to stabilize and maintain grip on the often off camber trails I run. This pressure is also causing the seam to rip on pinky toes. The rubber on the second metatarsal is also causing rips on inside of the first metatarsal (big toe).
More about wear
I will be pulling out my needle and thread to sew up and patch the holes. I will post pictures here for all to see. The bottom of the shoe is still looking like it can handle another 450 miles. The most wear is coming from the outside edge on the ball of the foot. The razor slits are now open and you can see some chunking of the rubber.
Ultra Running with Five Fingers
As I set my sights on running an Ultra (Angeles Crest 100) I would like to see Vibram modify the toes so that the separation of the toes would be molded together maybe the same thickness as the rubber under the arch. That way if the pinky toe is caught on a rock the other toes would be pulled with it. This would allow the toes to act as a unit and would limit injuries. Also it would stop the wear that I am getting on the inside of the big toe. I think the feel would be the same. There is no question that on rough trails and with longer distances that stretch into the 20 hour mark that a more shoe like product is needed. I like the shoe that Barefoot Ted is testing, but I so like the five finger experience and want to run the Angeles Crest with them. I think that there is a market for a five fingers product that is designed to tackle the 100 mile trail run.
Conclusion
Although I am stoked to be running in KSO’s I will be searching for a minimal shoe to run my first 100 mile trail run in. I will push my luck here in a few days and run a 20 miler in the KSO’s after I work on the shoes with needle and thread.
Updates:
Pinky Toe Update: After putting more that 500 miles on my Five’s and running a 50K last weekend May 23 I have less and less stubbed my pinky toes. In fact in my 50K race I only slightly dinged it on a rock. Seems your body learns how to keep the toes safe as I am unconcious of any difference in running technique.
Hot Spots Update: No longer getting hot spots on toes on long runs with Fives. Did a 20 mile training run with no hot spots whatsover.
Thank you sooo much for your post. My main concern/interest in the VFFs was how robust they would be. I was glad to hear that the soles will hold up for 450mi more. I am not worried about the uppers cuz i’ll just end up stichin’ them up too. The terrain you are working them on sounds great, do you have any pix? Cheers
Dave,
Sorry it took such a long time to reply. Take a look at the the last couple of posts and you can see some great pics of the terrain I run on.
Michael
How do they hold up running on pavement? Like a sidewalk, just curious if they are a “outdoor running” shoe only or if they can enable a feeling of barefoot urban running.
Travis,
The answer depends. If you are just training for marathons, etc. then I think they will hold up much longer, but if you see the urban environment like I see the trails and boulders in St. George then I think the results will be the same.
Michael Carroll
Hello,
I am also thinking of purchasing a pair of the KSO’s.
But I have a few concerns…
Does anyone know how well they do, in 100, 200 and 400 sprints mainly on concrete streets ?
And another question would be, is it advisable to actually run on concrete with the viram 5 fingers ?
Thanks
Martin,
As you know sprinting requires that you to be up on the balls of your feet — which means that you are using all the muscles in your leg for shock absorption and control. If you have a weak arch, ankle, and calves — if you have relied on shoes to do this job for you — it could be painful. Sprint barefoot on the concrete. See how hard you are allowing yourself to impact the ground. Play and see if you can get your body to just lightly touch the ground. Pretend that you are running on a bed of sharp gravel and every twist, touch, and impact counts. How did you do? It took me two years of training to get my feet strong enough to run a marathon. Be patient. That said – I love sprinting on the concrete, up strewn concrete banks on waterways, and scrambling on big rocks. They work great!
Regards,
Michael Carroll
Hello.
Thanks for the write-up. I’ve seen a lot of positives out there for these shoes … Very little constructive criticism … and even less about the wear and tear/lifetime issues.
My question is about the sole. I am not a runner, but have gone with the 5 fingers for other reasons (looking to build up leg/foot strength to help cope with achilles tendonitis) … so i got them for everyday walk-around shoes.
How long should the soles last? The little zigzag cuts are starting to split a little. Should I be concerned? I’ve had them on my feet for 5 days now, pretty much all day. I have no idea how much walking i do … maybe a pedometer is called for … anyway … is the splitting at those zigzags bad?
Ryan,
I just logged over 500 miles on my Five’s that you see in the picture since December 08. I will be posting a race report on the 50K trail race that I ran this past Saturday May 23. I will also have some pictures of my Five’ — both the inside and outside. At 251lbs and 6’6 I was on the course for 9 hours. There is no question about the durability of the soles as I have punished these babies. But as you read my new post (hopefully today) you will see that there are some limitations.
Michael Carroll
What do they feel like, they look like they would chafe your foot.
also, do people often look at you strangley when you go around with them, since these shoes look a bit strange.
Good questions. They feel like a sock that has been rubberized, but a bit stiffer. On the chaffing – I think it would all depend on how your feet are conditioned. I had been running barefoot for more than two years when I got my first FIVES. Hot spots on the toes as I mention in the review from running some off camber trails, but this has since dissipated. I think because my feet have more conditioning, and because I have changed my running form a bit. Running more upright, bending my legs more, and quicker cadence. Strange Looks: It all depends on the energy that you are putting out. If you expect it you will get it. I don’t expect it, and rarely get weird comments. They are more interested in why I am training to run ultra’s barefoot or sans shoes – with respectful energy.
Good luck, go barefoot 1st on hard surfaces, then buy some minimal shoes.
Michael Carroll
Michael Carroll
Saw your experience running in five fingers. I’m in SLC and spreading the gospel of finger finger running every time I go out. Everyone asks me about these things! I run about 12 – 15 miles a week in them on track/treadmill or grass and they are the best! Its helped my form, speed and leg strength a huge huge amount.
Mine have held up very well with no tears but I’m not running trails like you of course!
Glad to find another five fingers runner!
Dude! – grass and treadmill? Get out and run on asphalt, dirt and concrete. If you are worried about impact consider that I am 6’6 and weigh 251lbs. and I run mostly barefoot. Thanks for reading and for your post.
Michael Carroll
Redrock…this is an excellent write-up.
If you are interested in sharing some of your knowledge or just joining in a pretty active community of barefoot/minimalist runners, come join us over at Runners World Barefoot forums.
I look forward to reading more of your adventures.
Did you find the minimal shoe for your first 100 mile run? I’m looking around for something. I just came across Nike ACG Humara CI…do you know it?
No I have not. I am waiting for some shoes that are coming out from Terra Plana though. In the mean time I am still running in five fingers. I will be coming up on 800 miles on my pair. I found a pair of ACG Humara CL shoes at Altrec and they look heal neutral with minimal cushioning, but I bet the innards are soft. Every time I go into a shoe store and see minimal looking shoes I start prying at the insole and find lots of cushion. So I bet it is the same with the humara cl. Also, Nike no longer makes this shoe. It would be fun to try them out and see if the could be modified to work though as the shoe looks pretty cool.
Regards,
Michael Carroll
Hello,
I got lot if useful information from your site. Thanks.
Can you post a short video of you running with your VFF?
Jawa
Michael,
I am looking into getting a pair and reading everything I can find on actual use (for trail running / rock climbing mainly). I do run on pavement alot as well for marathon training (not up to par for Ultras anytime soon though!).
I was looking to order a set and was checking out standards sites and even Vibram itself and being a smaller guy they are completely out of stock right now on most all the products for the average joe (medium – small).
I came across this weblink NOT on vibram even for their newest 5 fingers products…kinda odd they haven’t been advertised much appearently, but one is the “Trek” – a leather version of the KSO (kangaroo to boot!) with more tread and a bit thicker sole now specifically for trail running and the “moc” for indoor / post activity wear that I know alot of guys bought them for in the first place (indoor rock climbing, yoga, weight lifting, etc), also made of Kangaroo Leather.
Just thought you might take a look – they really seem to be figuring this out and tailoring it for the customers! Nice…I am on the back-order log now waiting for mine!
Take care and continued success in your adventures!
– Andrew
http://www.kayakshed.com/prod/vibram-five-fingers-mens-kso-trek.cfm
Website for the Treks and Mocs if it didn’t post….
– Andrew
I can’t wait to try these out! For a minimal shoe, I would recommend you check out Innov8 line.
Cheers,
M
Have you seen the five fingers trek yet?
http://www.kayakshed.com/prod/vibram-five-fingers-mens-kso-trek.cfm
Michael,
Thanks so much for posting such a thorough log of your experience with the VFF’s. I’ve just finished “Born to Run” and I’ve been working on totally overhauling my running style. It’s hard to re-learn something you’ve been doing totally wrong for ten years! Anyway, I’m looking ahead to ultras in the next few years, and I’ve just stepped down to some minimalist shoes. I’ve been engaged in this new training for about a week, and I love it, but I’m having a couple of issues. My calves are super sore ( I assume from swithching from heel strike to the ball of my foot), and the top of my right foot is a bit tender today. Did you ever experience these kind of issues when you switched to minimalist/barefoot running?
Thanks again!
Calves – Soreness is normal. One of the best things that I doe is a calf massage when I go to bed at night. Here is how it goes. When you are laying in bed — on your back — bring one leg up with your foot still on the bed so your knee is pointing up so that your leg is forming a triangle with the bed. Then take your other leg and drag your calf over your knee. Experiment with this, feel the knots and work them. I also have to do a few calf stretches in the morning when I wake up.
Ball of the foot. Do a bit more reading over at barefootrunning.org. Barefoot running is not a ball strike or even landing. March in place softly and feel how your feet land. It is more of a whole foot exercise and as Ken Bob Saxton says – relax relax relax.
Regards,
Michael Carroll
Michael,
Have you looked at New Balance MT100 trail shoes? What are the shoes BF Ted is trying?
That’s great insight. I think I’m gonna get a pair and it’s good to hear about durability, fit, etc.
I’ve had rock climbing slippers, w/ vibram rubber, resoled before by a company called The Rubber Room. They did a good job, took about 2-3 weeks, and was $40. This may be an option for high mileage folks.
You mention ultra running in Five Fingers and wanting more of a “shoe” for longer distances — at the time you wrote this, the Trek wasn’t really out, but to date a few runners have run ultramarathons in KSO Trek Five Fingers and had generally pretty excellent experiences (that link is to my review — I’ve NOT run ultras, but in the review I cite a few user submissions to birthdayshoes from a couple 100 mile ultra runs and a 50K).
I hope you get the Treks so we can see a similar series of reviews to what you’ve done here. Good stuff Michael!
Justin,
Two thoughts as of today. One, my comments reflect the weaknesses in my feet. As I prepare to do two more 50k with minimal shoes, and the St. George Marathon barefoot I am focused on two things: foot strength, and diet. Second, keeping my feet healthy, and that means finding the right minimal shoes that can assist in training and racing ultra distances. I am looking forward to testing a few of these shoes – EVO, VFF Treks, and an improved Self-Made Huarache sandal.
Keep in touch – Michael
I will stay tuned! BTW, I highlighted your reviews on my definitive guide to KSO Vibram Five Fingers — I’ve read a lot of reviews, but yours always come to mind as some of the most informative!
Hi, thanks for your review on the VFF. I just brought home 2 pairs to the Philippines from my trip to the states and they were a little difficult to find. Had to go to 5 stores in Marin county to get the right models and size.
I’ve done 3 runs in my KSO treks and it felt great. Felt like I could keep on going. My calf muscles do hurt and my ankles too. I think its because of the new form of mid and front foot running. Hardly any pain in my thighs.
I feel like a kid running in my VFFs and I look forward to the next running session.
Glad to know from your experience that the soles last.
Run as much as you can barefoot. Pull out the VFF’s only when you have too. Sometimes I will go out with the VFF’s in my hand thinking that I will use them and come back without ever putting them on.
Please note that I do not count this as mileage on my KSO’s. LOL…
Thanks for the post… send some pics of the countryside that you are running in. I will post up on my blog.
Regards,
Michael Carroll
I got my kso’s about 3 weeks ago. Not being a believer in moderation I have put quite a bit of mileage on them already. Yesterday did a 36 miler on trails. Overall was a great run, but on the rocky/ rooty/ acorny sections I experienced a lot of pain in the balls of my feet and arch (whenever I hit a rock there). My question is – will the souls of my feet adapt? ‘Cuz it really hurts!
Aaron,
BRE = Barefoot Running Euphoria. Yea I think all runners who go to a minimalist barefoot running approach suffer from BRE. Dude if you can do 36 miles then you are strong and I would imagine you have some serious foot strength. However, barefoot minimalist running is about getting back in-touch with who you are and where your weaknesses lie. You might want to ask where else in your life are you experiencing pain because you are not listening? Ditch the VFF’s and run barefoot. Teach yourself about your body. Your body will tell you when you have run too far, or too fast, or on too rugged of terrain. It took me two years to build enough foot strength to run a marathon. The little muscles and tendons that no one ever worries about in your foot because they are firmly supported by arch and pronation supports of running shoes have to develop. If your arm was in a cast for 5 years how many push ups and pull ups would you want to do? You are going to have to approach your training from a completely different way. Trust me. Go barefoot and hard surfaces, then work in the VFF runs, and the barefoot trail runs.
Dude – 36 miles… Wow…
Your question about healing – When you are ready to let your whole body/spirit heal then the answer is Yes. Otherwise the pain is a direct message to you about your life.
Regards,
Michael Carroll
Hi! Thank you for answering the questions posted, it basically answered all I need to know about KSO VFF. I just started using VFF three weeks ago and I’m loving it. I used it once on trail and I had a great time. Tschuss!!
Remember to get some barefooting in on some hard surfaces. You will learn so much more about your running.
Thanks for your comments.
Michael Carroll
Hi!
Thanks for the post. I am training for my first marathon in SF and two weeks ago I ran 18 miles and got really bad shin splints. I began training again today and I could almost feel the splints coming back. I really want to start using the Fives but I am concerned that I will not have enough time to train in them. The marathon is July 25th (in 10 weeks). I do pound a bit on the pavement but have been consciously trying to have a lighter impact.
Do you think I should stick with what I have or get some Fives tomorrow and make a customized training schedule?
I suffered from shin splits from time to time during High School track and cross country. July 25th is coming up fast, so any change in training could cause you to have more issues. I would like to write a more detailed response to your post when I have more time to do so.
Michael Carroll
I’ve been running almost a year in vibrams but at much shorter distance levels. That said the change in form and shoes has made it possible for me to go from daily runs of 2-3 miles to 8-9 miles and marathons and ultra races don’t seem like something that is crazy, exotic and impossible. Seems attainable with more running, training etc. So this article was wildly motivating for me, just to see that it is possible.
Hi,
I have justed passed 1100 km (~680 miles) in the same pair of Flow TREK.
The left shoe now has a 4 mm2 hole all the way into the forefoot .
The VFFs and the toe socks are very tired now! – However I will try to run additional 100 km and see if it is time to order a new pair
You can see my evaluation at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUjT7uVq36k
Thanx for you blog!
Sweet!
As far as running more miles I would try the Bikila they are the best fives by far. Can not say enough good about them. Did all of my training for running the 2010 St. George Marathon (sans shoes) in them.
http://birthdayshoes.com/media/blogs/bdayshoes/mens_vibram_five_finger_bikila_grey.jpg
Regards,
Michael Carroll
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Recovering half iron athlete on a three times repaired knee (broken tibial plateau). I run in Newtons but keep my mileage severely down. Was looking at FF so I can up my mileage, and sized and got a pair. Having tons of problems getting the pinky in; are there any suggestions to get the pinky in the right place? Thanks in advance.
I find that after a few times wearing five fingers that they break in a bit and get easier to put on. When i put my feet in I am wiggling my toes and try to hook my pinky toe as I am moving forward. However sometimes I just have to use my fingers to pull the pinky toe box around it.
Just keep working it and it does get much easier.
Regards,
Michael Carroll
http://www.redrocksbluesky.com
http://www.theminimalistrunner.com
michael.vision360@gmail.com
435-275-5170
Hay how are theses shos for like down hill runing do they feel strange runing down, like do they suport ur feet or it feels like ur going to slip out of ur shoes… thx
Interestingly enough, the past week I’ve been logging some serious miles in my VFF Sprints and they have already surpassed my KSO’s as my favorite “shoes” to run the pavement in. I love the thinness/flexibility of them. The more I read about the Bikila’s the more I worry that they will have too much structure and take away from what has made me enjoy the Sprints so much these days…
Love the Bikila’s — gives me so much more flexibility when the feet are a bit tender and I need just a bit more cushioning than the Sprints or KSO’s. Sprints rub my achilles wrong – that is why I love the KSO. Thanks for sharing on my blog…
Michael Carroll
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What your doing is slightly more strenuous than the KSO’s seem to be purposed for. It is awesome they still are holding up despite that. You need to get a pair of the KSO Treks man. They are the same idea just slightly heavier duty for trial stuff.
http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/Five-Fingers-KSO-Trek-Mens.htm
lol and more protection for your pinky toe